Dead Whales For Research?

Hi all i dont usually bother with this type of shit. But the Whales need a voice, and I think you'll all agree that anything we can do to help is a good thing.

I recieved this email from a friend, and actually have met the person who sent it to her so i know its for real...

Please read below. go to the site, and enter your details, and click the box... then press send...

Thanks heaps... Whales are wonderful creatures

O


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Some help if you've got a moment (2 Minutes)


Hi all, forwarded from Cara (a friend of mine), she is actually a whale doctor (marine biologist) and has in fact been to St Kitts for the meetings so this is genuine, it takes no more than 2 minutes to fill in the petition

Wayne.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cara Miller


Dear all,

Hi -- I've made it safely back to Australia after an exhausting couple of weeks in St. Kitts at the International Whaling Commission (IWC). No doubt you may have seen some press on the last stage of the commission meeting (amongst the extravagent amount of world cup coverage). Unfortunately it seems that the pro-whaling nations are garnering support and over the last day have managed to get a resolution through plenary citing the IWC's overall support for the resumption of commercial whaling. The vote only passed by one vote. The "yes" votes came from the usual suspects ( i.e. Japan, Norway, Iceland, Russia - as well as a slew of small developing nations such as Cambodia, Antigua, and Togo who somehow have been "encouraged" to support anything Japan comes up with). The one notably unusual vote (which consequently secured the result) was from Denmark - the only European nation to vote in such a way ... and despite the fact that a poll of Denmark citizens last year indicated that only 5% of the population support whaling. In response to this we are trying to get Denmark to retract it's vote. Unfortunately this won't change the resolution but it will enable us to lessen the impact of this statement in other global fora such as the Convention of Migratory species, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna as well as the IWC itself. There's already been strong pressure put on the Danish government and Danish embassies all around the world. However if you could fill in your details and send off the e-mail available at

http://wdcs-uk.org/e_campaigns/e_campaigns...elect=campaign1


it would help the cause. Also if you could pass this on to any friends, relatives, colleagues etc that may be able to help I'd appreciate it. The last session of the commission meeting starts in about 12 hours so it needs to be done asap.

I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Cara

Dr. Cara Miller
WDCS Australasia Inc.
ABN 37 792 681 565
P.O. Box 720, Port Adelaide Business Centre SA 5015 Australia
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WDCS is the global voice for the protection of whales, dolphins and their environment.
WDCS is proud to have been adopted as a partner to the UN Convention on Migratory Species. A positive partnership for international cetacean conservation. For more information, please go to http://www.wdcs.org/wildoceans

done !

fuckin whale killers shit me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

same same,

im interested in women, but im not harpooning them...



Ok.. thats a bad example...

i give up.. Just sign the fkn petition

Whales are tasty.. like Dog, Kangaroo, Emu and Crocodile...

I don't get why whales need a voice in comparison to other consumed creatures?

coz most consumed creatures as you put it are bred/farmed for that exact purpose.

I signed it Oldskoolie

done!


cos whales dont bite you back!
AND
whales are endangered




sign the bloody thing justin!

That makes it better does it?



Cows bite you back? Sheep bite you back? Deer bite you back? Right ...

There are 80 different species of whale, and they are not as alike as most would assume. A gray whale is about as different to a killer whale as a wolf is from a buffalo. On top of that, although a FEW out of those 80 species are dwindling in numbers (like the Blue Whale and Northern Right Whale .. which ARE endangered), many of the different species have become quite numerous again (Minke, Beluga, Pilot, Narwhal, etc) .. just an example; the gray whale is now back to it's original stock size.

Next reason?

justin if you dont sign it you wil be the next endangerd species


...the grey whale may be back to its origional stock size.....<<<why did it get endangered?...and what changed to allow it to re-grow??

So you put in regulations on the amount of whaling that can be done, and you only target the species which are ripe for hunting .. oh wait, that's what they're already doing

ROFL this is fun to read... keep em coming!

yummy. just what i need this time of day

signed

why they gotta eat them?
we eat plenty of other stuff
leave em be .......
they are proved to be relatively smart and social
and their screams of agony and terror echo around the oceans of the world

imaging other whales 1000 kms away hearing their mate get torn apart.........or their cousin, whatever

its unrequired and unjustified

I spose you enjoy kicking kittens too?

word.....

word word

ah, a highly intelligent and necessary response...well done Paul

Petition will be signed by me shortly.

i signed it. Poor things, so perdy

Signed!

its sad that whales are being exploited the way they have been, i signed the petition and also have passed it on to some others by email.

The fact that whaling has no cultural or economic significance for us means that those who have it ingrained in their society should stop doing it? I would say that's a perfect example of opression. We don't agree with whaling, we don't whale - therefore those who have done it for hundreds, if not thousands of years are no longer allowed to do it?

As far as being relatively smart and social .. maybe people need to start reading more scientific journals? The two reasons that people consider whales to be of high intelligence is; a/ they have an extremely large brain, and b/ they show high levels of social solidarity and organisation.

Now the scientific findings .. brain mass is not an indicator of the quality of it's function .. brains are more effectively evaluated in relation to the body weight of the entity it belongs to. This actually means that mice are the most superior beings with a brain:body weight ratio of 1:13 .. the supposed intelligence of whales therefore pales in significance to that of mice.

Furthermore, researchers studying other living creatures such as monkeys, wolves, bees, and ants say that they show incredible social order and organisation superior to those of the whales. Even some fish species show orderly behavior, but nobody claims that they are intelligent.

There is also no empirical proof that whales discern the effects of pains like humans do, so as far as screams of agony and their family knowing about it, etc is merely suppositions.

As far as supposing I like killing kittens too, or even asking the question - maybe take a step back and realise that this has thus far been a mature discussion, which in my opinion has only been concerned with facts. Don't get personal please, and most definitely do not try to start a mud slinging contest.

I don't see why anthems can't have a discussion about something controversial and not start degrading their level of communication and social behavior.

Ive signed it!! I love whales- blubbery & squishy looking
If theyre looking for a food source theres some REALLY annoying children living in our street (i swear if one more ball hits our window im going postal) theyre nowhere near as popular or pretty as whales

sorry .........your voice is a little muffled

perhaps if you stood up and bent over it would come out clearer

peoples who have a tradition of hunting whales , should be and are allowed to hunt
whales....in the traditional way which is in a wooden boat using oar/sail power
and using a hand held harpoon

least the whales have a fighting chance

and to compare the mouses ability to bumble through a maze with the whales hunting teqniques (solo and en mass) not to mention the migration and verballisation that these amazing creatures exzibit.........frankly beggars belief

debate -both factual and emotional is a sign of a healthy society/community

i hear elephants are good to eat aswell and there ivory is pretty expensive

Actually, they're allowed to hunt whales in more than just the traditional way of a wooden boat and hand-held harpoon. The methods used today are by far the most efficient to date. Unless you want the whales to "suffer" more by using pre-historic methods. You're contradicting yourself now.

As far as making qualitative assessments of the different facets of the whale and the mouse you're being far too selective and subjective

Also, flaming is not discussion, jase. There are actually forum guidelines which you yourself have signed off on (http://anthems.com.au/forum/http://anthems.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=4942&hl=forum) - try and stick to them, yeah?

i have to agree with JASE31 on this...

Whaling is bad... mostly because the life-cycle is way to LONG which makes them prime candiate for extinction... The only long life span animals on earth that is really NOT a worry about extinction is those fuking humans... geeeze they piss me off

This is why there are regulations already in place. Quotas determined by looking at the actual stock of each species to be sure there are no chances of them being hunted until extinction.

With such strict policing of it, and the fact it's on such a large public forum now as well, means those regulations and quotas will no doubt be kept up-to-date with the most recent of data that is needed to ensure the most ecologically friendly way to go about whaling.

and obviously people can't stick to these quotas is why there is such a push for a ban.
I think this is better than going oops! too late

flaming is a small pleasure in the otherwise bland life of an old man.......

you want me to stick what , where?

lets just give them kevlar vests....

...damn hippies...

A select few can't stick to the quotas, you're right.

That doesn't mean you shut down an industry, and several sub-industries; it means you address the source of the problem .. those not abiding by the law.

yeah, but places like japan don't give two sh*ts. no amount of pressure will make them abide. But if it's a total ban, there may be those who disabide, of course. But its better to save what we still have then to try and fix it up once it's too late

Actually, the biggest issue to date with whaling (the thing which really kicked the debate off) is the fact the blue whale was almost wiped out in the Antarctic whaling operations.. The countries to blame for this are Norway (82,000 blue whales depleted), Great Britain (70,000) and Japan (25,000).

Japan actually pales in comparison to quite a few of the bigger offenders who basically cruised by unscathed in the public eye.

Also .. to say that Japan as a whole don't give two shits is ridiculous. That's such a close-ended statement, and so broad. Japan cares, hence its involvement IWC. Like I said, there are some groups who do not abide - stop the problem there, don't just ban it all together.

An exaggerated parallel would be to say that some people can not be trusted driving cars and they can cause distress, injury and even death to others - therefore let's ban cars.

whales are not bred for human consumption as is the cow or pig. why go around slaughtering them? im sure the products that are made from their fat can be simulated with chemicals. and the meat probably tastes like chicken anyway, as does every other meat thats not red *hang on is whale meat red? i dont know * (i dont actually know this for sure but apparenty crocodile tastes like chicken, and so does wombat)

is it also ok to destroy forests for the purpose of industry?

are trees intelligent? do they have feelings?

i'll sign it, on that same token Justin, there are tribes out there that still indulge in cannabilsm, does that make it ok then for them to eat me if i happen to innocently wonder into their territory, simply because that's their tradition?? Of course not, it's inhumane to allow such things to go on. Clearly these whales cannot protect themselves, thereby giving us the responsibility, as the so called superior species, to do what we can to protect them in order to maintain the natural blance of things. I would like to think if things were the other way around they'd be lining up sign a petition against us being harpooned too. *goes off to hug a whaly*

Who said anything about destroying the whales for industry? Further up there have been a few posts regarding the fact that whales are not near extinct, or even looking to be extinct with current whaling quotas. *IF* whaling looked to destroy whales, then I would understand; but it doesn't - therefore the forest parallel is a bit too exaggerated

I'm completely serious here: can you explain to me how breeding an animal with the intention to kill it is any better than hunting in the wild? There is no law that says it is more humane or more acceptable, so I'm guessing this is just a perspective .. one I clearly don't grasp. Please explain

.. and as far as speculating that the products from their blubber can be chemically simulated .. my response is to speculate that such a process would cause undue environmental pollution, as it would no doubt be a capital-intensive process which is by far one of the leading causes of environmental degredation in the world



Whales are not human. Cannabalism can't be compared to whaling in my eyes.

There are regulations in place to help maintain the balance and protect whales.

Banning whaling is just a blanket solution.

you did....

I see your point here i was just using a common example
but it seems that european countries get away with alot of things: i.e. forcing countries to pay back debts from over 100 years ago etc...

None the less, sign it if you agree with it, if you don't meh. Feel free to voice your opinion, but don't forget that people do get emotional but none the less - do not take someone elses opinion personally! don't make it stop you from saying what you feel.

Fun happy times

Breeding an animal with the intention of killing it isnt any better. The problem for me is that because of the sheer size of a whale it is very hard to kill them quickly & i happen to think being harpooned would REALLY hurt.
I dont approve of any kind of cruelty to animals- i eat some meats, but theyre our own cattle & i happen to know that they are killed very quickly & as painlessly as possible. Chicken i will buy from the butcher- i dont agree with the way they are raised but knowing how they are kept when the are alive most of them are better of dead. That and chickens have a different way of feeling pain- its not 'pain' as we feel it- one learns these things after sitting through an 8 hour lecture on chickens

of course they aren't but it isn't any more right to slaughter and eat another human being than it is to slaughter and do whatever with an animal that is not specifically bred for this purpose. Don't get me wrong I'm not a big fan of eating cows, sheep and chickens either. Humans have no right to determine whether or not an animal has emotions, feels pain in the way we do, whatever, every living creature has a right to life and for those who are unable to defend that right themselves I feel we all have an obligation, as fellow inhabitants of this earth, to provide defence for them where we can, most especially when their lives are being ended so needlessly and cruelly.

Even reading that quote .. where did I say whales were looking at being destroyed? (By destroyed, we're talking extinction; as I was replying to your comment about destroying the forest).



There's also no proof AT ALL that whales feel "pain" the same way we do, so they might as well be on par with the chickens.

I also believe that a sub-topic is about to be opened if we go too far into the standards and operations of abottoirs, as I have read some pretty damning articles regarding the treatment and slaughter of livestock. It's no-where near as humane as most think :/



Needlessly and cruelly?

It's obviously being done for a reason, a "need" as you would put it. The whaling industry is huge, as are the sub-industries. What other reasons are needed? We quite happily kill other animals for parallel reasons (cows, sheep, etc).

As far as cruelly goes; like I said before there is no proof that whales feel pain as we do, and the methods used for whaling are the most efficient we have ever seen .. much like the methods used for slaughtering livestock. The idea of seeing a method of cruel is purely perspective. The slaughtering of livestock can be seen as cruel and far too lengthy, it all depends on where your baseline is.

I'm still not grasping this breeding animals to kill them being better than hunting them in the wild either

ok maybe i used the wrong word

*edit*

i wasnt referring to destroying as extinction but as killing

If they could prove that whales dont feel pain in the way we do or if they could find a more humane way of killing them and providing they were being slaughtered for the right reasons then i dont think it would cause such controversy.
For me killing whales is right up there with catching sharks & cutting off their fins- its not humane- if you must kill an animal it needs to be done as quickly and painlessly as humanly possible because its not fair to inflict such pain on something that cant defend itself like we can.
I have heard & seen some horrible things that happen in abottoirs and personally that upsets me- which is why i wont buy meat from butchers or supermarkets- i would prefer to breed my own & ensure they are killed humanly- problem is that not everyone has access to facilities to do this themselves.

I keep saying it ..it is being done as quickly and painlessly as humanly possible.

perhaps its just that I don't see the need but to keep doing it to support industry and sub industry makes it ok???? Sure the results they get for research purposes might benefit humans in some way (they would have to or the bastards wouldn't do it) but there must be other methods, they may well be more expensive but more humane is always going to win over cheap in my books.

just because there is no proof what right do we have to determine if they do or don't feel is my point?? A shark eating a human doesn't know if it's hurting the human but it doesn't make it any less or a tradedy froma humans point of view. If people feel they have the right to hunt and kill that shark then whales should have the right to hunt and kill those catching and killing them - how much public outcry would that bring though!!! and, unfortunately they cannot do this, so should we not, as custodians of this planet, help where we can by banning such activities? It takes baby steps to bring about more humane treatment of animals, 20 years ago vivisection was still legal and common practice, it wasn't anymore right back then, it just takes a starting point and enough people to make a stand, why then can the same practice not be applied to whales and they ban whaling for the purposes of research and whatever else they use them for?

I would take the same stance if it were the harpooning and testing of cats or dogs. I just believe it's cruel and unnecessary.

I'm with you on the slaughtering of livestock... I don't agree with it and if I could sign a petition to make that more humane then I would.

clearly I'm not all that well educated on this issue but I still believe it wrong, just as I feel it's wrong the way they treat livestock.

I know it is- but i seriously think they could improve on the technique I understand that they are very large animals and its very hard to do this but theres got to be a way to cut down the time it takes them to die
I also know that what we are being shown isnt the way that all whalers are behaving- because im sure some of them are being as humane about it as they can & for that they get my respect but as with everything else there is a small group of them that are ruining it & making it very hard for the general public to accept that it is humane.

I LIKE whales but i doubt i could eat a whole one. I think controlled whaling is ok but lets just call a spade a spade. I know their eatin them you know they are eating them EVERYONE knows they are fuckin eating em. The guise of scientific research is a load of B/S. I saw the other day one of em holding up a sign " we are collecting tissue samples" Geeez lucky these guy's weren't doctors otherwise a dna test would consist of one doctor harpooning you in the back while onother winches you up on the table and start hacking you to bits.

Full on comercal whaling like we say years ago is irresponsible and wreckless to say the least. If i had a choice i'd ban it but since i don't rule the word compromises must be made. MWAH's to whales if i were you i'd be learning to swim a hell of a lot faster.

I just want to clear up that I didn't mean they should keep whaling JUST because there are big industries dependent on it. The main reason for whaling is the consumption of the whale meat, use of blubber in production processes, and research. It'd be crazy if we got into how "needed" these three things are, as I don't think it can really be quantified at all.

Apart from that, the rest is going to just turn into a debate of perspectives - we've got different views and I think we can agree to disagree on our perspectives of whether whales should be hunted or not (as opposed to arguing purely about our opinions, you know?).



I imagine with advancements in the research and development of hunting methods, and technology in general that the technique will be improved over time .. I mean it's come a long way in the past 50 years alone, so with any luck it'll keep getting better.

I do agree though that those going against the regulations and condoned methods are in need of serious punishing and so forth.

Whales feel pain.

Or do they do that thrashing and screaming in excitement???

I'm glad that you have a deep understanding of the mammal's biological and cognitive processes.

The fact that through all the subjective rubbish that it STILL has not been proven is as good a reason as any to throw out that argument.

Cue more subjective posts about whales screaming and how that *MUST* be an indication that they feel pain in a way we comprehend.