QUOTE(overdose @ Mar 8 2006, 08:05 PM)
This isn't a go at you (or in any way shape or form disrespecting you, and maybe CrisP will agree with me) but I think that is what Cris means about people trying to force it down the throat of others. It's like anything, driving, getting into raves, learning (how to talk, walk etc.) is pretty much like religion, it should be a natural thing, not forced. You don't say to your child "Say Hello now or I'll smack you!". You say the word around them until they can/want to say it.
Sorry i wasn't saying for you guys to go out, i mean for the people who have blind faith in the book called the bible, without having done any further research into the history! Not pinpointed at anyone, sorry rob!

More to the ppl that bash me with the bible...
QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 08:47 PM)
You lost me by giving Paradise church your personal guarantee. They are reknown bible bashers, with a 'with us or against us" attitude... I have not much to say about the assemblies of god, only charitable if you're born again christian... If you're not one of them they write you off.
First i wasn't giving paradise my garantee, if anything i hate that church cos they give the rest a bad name aswell... don't get me started on them, i havew lots of experience with them... I was saying they are very accepting, because like you said they are an organisation, and mainly, if not soley after your money, so i think we're saying the same thing there bro!

QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 08:47 PM)
And for the record, just because Angel eyes has only seen the inside of one denomination church doesn't mean she is not entitled to voice an opinion, at least she went to one, not much for other people commenting on the subject..
What angel eyes was saying is correct, and i wasn't saying her oppinion was wrong at all, it just sounded as tho she put the stereotype of "Church" on all denominations of christianity after only attending one type, non-catholic. (i think catholics are hypocrytes btw, and hated what they did in history, ie crusades etc...)
QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 08:47 PM)
Im sad for you that you dont get more family time, I dont know the reasons but you'd think that having christian values should also include quality time with your folks. But that was not my point, i have been told many a time I will go to hell coz satan is in my music....please....

I was sent home with books designed to instigate the fear of god into me for listening to rock when I was a kid..
The reason i don't get to see my family is not by choice! They live in perth 3000K's away and i'm not exactly made of money and as missionaries, they don't have money either... we're not what you would call a well off family, which is why i'm at uni, to change that. I love may parents and i would love to see them every day. I know they feel the same way and i make sure they know how i feel. Not because i was baught up a christian, but because i sincerily love them.

QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 08:47 PM)
Not everyones experience with churches are as positive as you've had, and people don;t necessarily hate God, they hate the organisations created by man, ran by men for the benefit of man. Show me a pastor that has a job, supports his family, doesn't travel at the expense of the church community and still gives a good positive sermon without bagging every other religion, non believer and whatever else takes his fancy and I may be willing to listen...
I didn't say my experiences in church are possitive. I hate the organisation of "churches". just like u say, so i think we're on the same wavelength u just missunderstood what i was trying to say. sorry if i was unclear.
One pastor that supports his family, pays his own travel expenses, doesn't bag other religions, always gives serious sermons, is my father.

He's not the only one either. The Pastor who passed down onto him was the same. My dad actually pays expenses to keep the church running, ei electrical bills, rates etc, beacuse there are not enough ppl in the church to support it.
QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 08:47 PM)
Your dad's 10 ppl church may be more of what the love for god is all about than a giant church like paradise..
As for researching the bible and the history of church, I say Irrelevant, the bible was written by men so is not the word of god but the interpretation of whoever it suited at the time, and history doesn't say anything about what the church is all about today... wouldn't you agree?

Exactly my point... well said...

i said before it was written by man... but sometimes u get the feeling when reading older parchments/scriptures, like those found in the dead sea scrolls u get this erey feeling that something more inteligent wrote it...
Groover, me n u are on the same wavelength in thought, i just hope u don't missunderstand what i'm saying...

QUOTE(groover @ Mar 8 2006, 09:25 PM)
BINGO!!! it's just the "best fit model" that some dude thought up, because our puney brains can't understand how or why the universe exists... No way we will ever know, so thats why i don't bother...
BTW, i'm a physicist

I love scientists!

QUOTE(ravingham @ Mar 8 2006, 09:01 PM)
has there ever been scientific proof of anything religious being real?
yes. They found roman helmets and chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. In the bible, moses parted the red sea, (who da frick knows how) and the romans drowned in it.